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Cylinder and Tube Theories

Page history last edited by PBworks 17 years, 9 months ago

Back to Literary Criticism

 

Cylinder and Tube Theories


 

There is a lot of confusion and controversy that swirls around fan circles regarding the nature of the three similar weapons that appear throughout the various Sagas, The Parchment Cylinder, the Cardboard Tube, and The Cardboard Tube of Unusual Sharpness and Popularity. This page covers some of the theories and debates that still occur about this subject. It is unknown why the only one of these three (or less, depending on who you talk to) weapons appeared in the CCG - the Parchment Cylinder.

 

General Assumptions

All the theories listed here have a few common assumptions. The first is that The Cardboard Tube of Unusual Sharpness and Popularity and The Parchment Cylinder are definitely distinct weapons, due to both being in use at the same time in Book 12. The second is that both weapons are generally accepted to be extant during both The Magic Sword Kings Period and The Elemenstor Cycle. The Cardboard Tube is generally accepted to be extant during the Wang Era. Whether it is a distinct weapon or one of the other two is the subject of debate.

 

The Three Weapon Theory

This theory states that all three weapons are distinct. Of the three, the Cardboard Tube alone is lost to history, disappearing along with its wielder, the Cardboard Tube Samurai, during the Wang Era. Proponents of this theory note that there is a story involving Harbinger Portent and an unknown warrior who was able to defeat many guards with "a piece of garbage." This is proposed to be the Cardboard Tube Samurai, though how he travelled some 500 years into the future to meet with Portent is unknown. While it is certainly not impossible, the background of the Samurai was always left vague in Oriental Tales of the Wang Kingdom, there is no definitive proof either way.

 

The Tube is Cylinder Theory

This theory states that the Cardboard Tube and The Parchment Cylinder are one and the same weapon. The origins of the Cylinder are never mentioned, but it appears a few times in various Sagas, always where needed. Since the Cylinder's powers are known to vary from wielder to wielder, proponents put forth that this was the weapon that the Cardboard Tube Samurai wielded. There is evidence to support this, including similar descriptions of both weapons. Other supporting evidence is the fact that the Cylinder is known to have displayed powers similar to the Tube. Again, however, there is no definitive proof that this is the case.

 

The Tube is Tube Theory

This theory rather pragmatically states that the Cardboard Tube is, in fact, The Cardboard Tube of Unusual Sharpness and Popularity. The weapons are, after all, virtually identical. The tube Gragnakas forged was sent back in time to the Magic Sword Kings Period, but no mention of it is made during the Wang Era. Proponents state that the Cardboard Tube Samurai came into possession of the weapon. They also state in their favor that while the Cardboard Tube is described as being forged from an 'unknown material,' the Dwarves did not discover Muramite cardboard until almost 5,000 years later. However, as this disregards the Harbinger Portent/stranger-with-garbage story mentioned above, and it also does not explain how P'km'n the Hungry came to possess the CToUSaP, this is generally regarded as a maverick theory and is not given much credence.

 

Discussion

Please feel free to discuss the debate and theories here.

 

from the CTofUSaP page: "The Forge-King Gragnakas was inspired in his creation of this blade by an ancient tale of a warrior who, armed only with a bizarre tube, wandered the countryside fighting bandits and protecting villagers, no matter the risk to his own life." Wouldn't this mean that they are 2 different weapons, and the warrior referenced here is the CTS who inspired Gragnakas? -CJ
Not necessarily. Gragnakas forged them some 16,000 years after the Magic Sword Kings Period. They were carried back in time by Verdant Anuerism. It is quite possible that Gragnakas was inspired by the tales of someone wielding the weapon he himself forged. Then again, it could be someone else. Or, it could be the CTS who was actually wielding the CTofUSaP, and it became known as a separate weapon. And so, we fans are left to decide for ourselves what we think is most likely. :) --b.fox

 

Okay... I know there's always been a lot of talk about if the Cardboard Tube Samurai is in the first ElemenSTAR movie, and, if so, which Cylinder/Tube he fights with. However, it is explictly stated he fights with the Empty Paper Towel Roll. That would be a very short weapon. I've read that the Cardboard Tube was originally based on a wrapping paper tube, which are much longer and sturdier than paper towel tube (or am I just spouting fanon?). Rather than propose ANOTHER tube-based weapon, could it merely be that the samurai's name and weapon were mistranslated? It isn't without precedent in the animated series. Plus I think there were legal concerns because the CTS was co-owned by whatshisname or somesuch. Just a thought. -2xmint
I've always assumed it was a mistranslation. I've only ever seen the one Fansub of the first ElamenSTAR movie, and as I noted on the summary page for it, it was a pretty crap translation. They kept getting character names wrong, and referred to "MooMaa" as "CowsoundMother" twice. And the tube the samurai in question used was undeniably longer than a paper towel roll....unless Japan has some long paper towels. They *do* use the metric system, after all. -Shadowtext

 

I heard a rumour that The Fourteenth Manuscript directly involves something about the Original Tube and the CTofUSaP being weilded together and *both* carried back in time and ultimately being woven together to become the Parchment Cylinder but I have no idea whether there's any truth in it. - Xaphod
Wasn't CTS himself saying that 'his tube has many names'? - Jake
I heard the Fourteenth Manuscript rumor as well, except that it was the 'past' and 'present' copies of the CTofUSaP that were carried back and woven into the Cylinder. The rumor I heard also said Sepathok is the one who does it.

 

A theory is that the CTS isn't always the same person - it's a role passed from father to son or master to apprentice over the years. This explains how the Cardboard Tube Samurai travelled 12,000 years into the future to meet with Portent. - Xaphod
Hmm. That's an interesting theory, Xaphod. It makes sense, too. I'm of the opinion that the infamous quote "The Tube is Civilization" is meant to be taken literally. The Tube is, in fact, the embodiment of Civilization, and therefore embodied with all the force of a nation at war, or all the harshness of draconian law, and all the sharpness of something quite sharp. The CTS, then, would be like the guardian and also the guiding hand of civilization, a position which would by necessity need to be filled at all times. So it's more than possible that the Tube chooses a new CTS (possibly of the line of the original CTS) whenever it needs one. An interesting point to ponder. ~Shadowtext
A few issues with this theory: firstly, only one person is known to have gone by the name "Cardboard Tube Samurai". If the name was passed down to anybody, then its inheritors didn't get much use out of it. Secondly, the individual in the Harbinger Portent story is never referred to as the "Cardboard Tube Samurai". Thirdly, it doesn't explain how the Tube got back. (The obvious answer to this would be "time travel" but in that case, it would be much simpler to propose that both the Samurai and his original "piece of garbage" travelled forward in time to meet Harbinger Portent, and then he returned home with the newly-created Tube.) -SamSim
First of all.. I don't know where 12,000 years came from since CTS disappears in 3,467 and Harbinger Portent is born in 4,003. Secondly... just because the observer assumed the CTS (if that's who is was) was wielding a "piece of garbage," we don't know that this wasn't merely the carboard tube which he was wielding.. in which case, what reason is there for him to be "going back?" -Harbinger Tim

 

There is a simple explaination for all of this, but due to several pending lawsuits by various corporate entities against Realmworlds Publishing, we are unfortunately unable to comment on this situation. -- Tyge Ottesen Realmworlds Publishing Legal Intern

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